The Gospel of John

Notes on January 27

For those of you who missed the meeting:

Don added some comments to what I wrote on baptism, saying that rabbis had been baptizing new converts to Judaism in the time before Jesus came. The difference with John was that he baptized Jews for repentance.

After that, Pablito opened the meeting with prayer.
Then we looked at the second part of chapter 1. Ray started this by asking "How we wanted to be known by God."
Don reinterpreted this as "How can I grow in knowing God? How can I become, like David, a man after God's own heart?"
Eddie said that would happen by being obedient to God's prompting.
Ray made some comments about how he works with his kids to get them to obey. How can he encourage them to do what need to be done instead of driving them with the threat of punishment? As a father, his objective is to prepare the kids to move on and become adults.
I wondered how you train kids to become independent when we're all becoming more dependent upon God.

Ray asked "How do we want to be known by God?" I thought this was not the best question because God already knows us, but didn't speak up.
Eddie wanted to be known as an obedient child.
Don asked whether this meant we tried to bring the good things about ourselves to the fore, so that's what God would see. He thought a better way would be to move forward on the way to sanctification.
Ray mentioned that it might be more about self-awareness: what kind of person do we want to present to God? What's our desire? In any event, he said it was more important to do rather than make lots of claims about knowing God but not really doing anything.
Pablito said he wanted God to know him with all of his faults. The truth, negative and all. I would concur with that, it being true anyway. Hiding from God is, um, not easy. There's certainly peace to be found in God's true opinion.

Discussion became lively at this point and I couldn't keep up with notes. Pablito wanted God to strengthen him. Ray said the key to knowing what God wants is prayer.
I mentioned that self-judgment is deadly and that God is much better at telling us what's wrong. We tend to become vindictive, even on ourselves.

Then Eddie asked how do you know when God is speaking to you.
Ray said that we have the Holy Spirit to confirm what we hear, and we have the Bible. He also said it was important to wait for the Lord to speak.
Eddie amplified: "How does God make this individually clear?" He gave an example from his life, wanting to be at an appointment early, but God told him to wait. He didn't wait and got to the place well before it opened. He was upset that he was wasting his time.
Ray brought up the idea that Eddie hadn't wasted time: he'd gotten a lesson in practical obedience.

Discussion became free-wheeling after that. Ray mentioned the second half of the promise to Nathanael: "You will see greater things than these."
Don mentioned that he thought the whole question of how we want God to see us is irrelevant because he already sees us completely as we are. The question is really Do you want to know Jesus? The only way is to "Come and see," as Jesus told the first disciples.
Don asked what Jesus meant when he talked about the angels descending and ascending on the Son of Man, but no one rose to the question.

Ray talked some about the train wreck. Why did he miss it? Why was he spared? What's his purpose? The next day on his way to work he was in the car, looking at the sun rising through clouds, and realized he was there to see the beauty. He also wanted to be at this meeting.
Seeking lost sheep. Why did God choose any of us? He has to move in our hearts. Why choose us? Who chooses?

Pablito asked about plans: to what degree do you simply let go of plans and let God handle it?
I mentioned that I don't plan much of anything, for better or for worse. I didn't get the chance to say that I expect this to change as I learn to live with Jesus.
Pablito mentioned then that all the disciples had plans they were going to do before they met Jesus, who changed everything.
Ray mentioned Saul and how he became a follower of Jesus. Paul made plans but God sometimes changed them. Paul went where he could to spread the gospel.

Don came back to what Jesus said about the angels, saying that the angels coming and going on the Son of Man were like Jacob's vision of the ladder to heaven, and the well-read Nathanael would have known this because it's in the Torah. He finished this by saying that it could be a figure of Jesus coming to us.

Eddie liked the idea of "Come and see." Explore, getting closer to God. He also asked for prayer so he'd do well on a test for a new job.
Ray asked for prayer for the move to the Caltrans building so that the circle can become wider. He wants to affect the people in that building too. He feels rather like a teen-ager moving to a new school

Don closed the meeting with prayer.
No plans were discussed for the next meeting.

posted by Larry @ 1:29 PM